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舊 2013-05-01, 05:16   #1
大濟
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Qomolangma (珠穆朗瑪峯)事件

看國內某報紙報導,不禁搖頭歎息,國內新聞素質真的 . . .

http://life.chinatimes.com/LifeConte...430003197.html (標題:“聖母峰攻頂客不聽勸 尼泊爾嚮導飽以老拳”)這篇報導不但內容和外界不同,而且完全不註明新聞來源。

關於這起事件外電報導如下,請參考(很多,只列出兩個,它們的讀者留言特別值得閱讀!):

http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=68020

https://www.thebmc.co.uk/into-the-death-threat-zone

以下則是 CNN 最新報導:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/30/world/...ght/index.html

這起事件不是單純的偶發事件,有其深沈的背景原因,就如同當事者 Jonathan Griffith 所說的:“ . . . The reasons behind the attack are complicated and deep-rooted, and to do with the relationship between Westerners and Nepalis on the mountain over many years. They are not because of our direct actions . . .”

另一個背景原因則是近20年來,遠征太過 “商業化” 的結果。CNN 報導:“[M]oney has changed the Everest experience and spawned resentment among Sherpas . . . 'They're angry at this financial gap on their mountain,' Jonathan Griffith said of the Sherpas. 'These commercial trips are based on a lot of luxury and getting you up the mountain and a lot of these Western clients don't even know what the names of their Sherpas are.' And that, he says, makes him wonder if he'll try Everest again . . . 'I didn't think the main danger would be a mob of Sherpas throwing rocks,' Griffith is quoted as saying . . ."

有關 Sherpa 和外國登山界的互動內涵和影響,研究報導並不多,這裡僅附上一篇早期(1960s)的文章,請參考。

另外,知名人類學家 Sherry Ortner 2001 的書:“Life and Death on Mt. Everest: Sherpas and Himalayan Mountaineering” 可能是最廣為人知的,這本得獎書也是極少數從 Sherpa 角度看喜馬拉雅山區遠征發展對當地人文帶來的影響的書(我沒看過,將來必讀),以下是 Amazon 網站:

http://www.amazon.com/Life-Death-Mt-.../dp/0691074488

關於遠征商業化,批判最著的當然就是 Jon Krakauer 1997 的書:“into Thin Air”,這本書很多人看過了,這裡就不多說。
上傳的附件
檔案類別: pdf high alt mountaineering.pdf (536.2 KB, 412 次檢視)

此文章於 2013-05-01 06:22 被 大濟 編輯.
大濟 目前離線   回覆時引用此篇文章
舊 2013-05-01, 16:37   #2
mount3092
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another view from Chad Kellogg who was a eyewitness

http://www.outdoorresearch.com/blog/...-everest-brawl
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舊 2013-05-02, 00:43   #3
大濟
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謝謝 Mount3092 po 的訊息,讓我們有機會看到真相。

Mount3092 所 po 的訊息,寫的人還是西方的觀點,摘錄如下:

“ . . . We were all anxious to see if justice would be served to the handful of folks that had instigated the assault of at least four Westerners and one Sherpa. I felt that the companies that employed the men responsible should at the very least fire the men and get them off the mountain so the situation could not repeat itself . . . I am here to climb and that is what I still intend to do . . . ”

我看了以後不禁搖頭。一直以為登山家都有曠闊胸襟或悲天憫人情懷,看樣子不是。在這麼重大的事件發生後還能寫出這樣子的句子,除了 ego 以外,我想不出別的理由。

Mount3092 po 的訊息的最後一句則附上了另一個連結,感謝這個連結(也謝謝 Mount3092!),這連結詳細說明了事件發生前後幾天,那裡進行活動的種種以及原因,講的都是客觀事實,看了以後您可以比較了解事情始末,連結如下:

http://www.alanarnette.com/blog/2013...pas-viewpoint/

這是我看過最詳細也比較中肯的描述,所以敬冒不韙,多佔一些空間,將部份原文摘錄如下,簡單的中文說明也如下:

“As this story has emerged in the media it has become clear that the Sherpas have not been given a voice. The press releases, the blogging, and reports from the European climbers have dominated the headlines. Meanwhile the Sherpa are quietly continuing to fix the rope and continue their work at nearly 8000 meters on Everest. These Sherpa help realize the dream of many western climbers and will continue to be honored and respected by the foreign climbers who climb with them on Everest.

多數的報導都是來自洋人,完全忽略了雪巴人對這件事情的看法 . . .

I have pieced together an objective version of events different from what is currently in the media headlines . . .

以下整理出事件發生前後始末,以下也與現登於大眾媒體的稍有不同 . . .

On April 18th, 2013:

All expedition leaders and Sherpa Sirdars (Sherpa 的領隊們)were invited and attended a meeting in Everest base camp to discuss the rope fixing strategy for this season on Everest. At this meeting everyone had a chance to suggest the best strategy and route to safely climb the mountain. The meeting concluded with the nomination of fixing Sherpas (the best available) and the suitable dates to complete the work. It was also agreed at the meeting by all the expedition leaders that nobody would be climbing on the route on these dates except the fixing team. That while these young men were working to fix the route for all expeditions at base camp, no expedition would disrupt or create a distraction for them. Unfortunately, Simone Moro did not attend this meeting, and might not have been aware that this protocol is an unwritten rule on Everest.

四月十八日,所有基地營領隊開會決議如何架設固定繩,決議架設固定繩的路線(在 Lhotse face 上的預定路線 ),而且也決議固定繩架設全由雪巴人負責,在固定繩架設期間,所有人不得攀爬正在架設固定繩的路線,且不得防礙雪巴人工作 . . . 可是 Simone Moro 沒有參加這個會議 . . .

Over the next few days all the teams at base camp pitched in and Sherpas carried over 50 loads through the Khumbu Icefall to Camp 2. The fixing started on April 26th, for 2 days the Sherpa were scouting the best route on the Lhotse face and by the 27th they were less than an hour from reaching camp 3.

固定繩架設工作始自四月26日,隔天,27日,雪巴架設的固定繩離 camp 3 只剩一小時行程 . . .

The 3 European climbers set out the morning of the 27th heading for the Lhotse face. After suggestions from both guides and Sherpa at Camp 2 and below the Lhotse face to turn around, because fixing the Lhotse face demands strict concentration, the 3 climbers continued on to the Lhotse face moving up and to the left of the fixing route. The 3 climbers moved alpine style up the Lhotse face and were headed towards their camp (just below camp 3 on the Lhotse face).

27日早上,那三位攀登者由 camp 2 出發前,camp 2 的領隊和雪巴曾建議他們不要在這個時候爬,因為雪巴在架設固定繩要非常專心,三個人不聽,仍按照他們自己的原定計劃(在雪巴的工作線左方約50米)開始往他們自己設定的 camp 3 (他們以 Alps style,就是自己不架固定繩)攀爬。

At this time the Sherpa fixing team were working on the Lhotse Face and have reached one of the steeper & more exposed areas. The temperature was dropping and the winds were picking up. As the fixing team was moving through a steeper section of the Lhotse face, the 3 European climbers met with the fixing team. The fixing team alerted the 3 climbers to not touch or cross the rope. This is a high intensity environment where people’s instincts are at a heightened state. The lead fixing Sherpa spoke with one of the 3 climbers at which point physical contact was made, at that point Simone came in verbal contact with a number of the fixing team who had now congregated at one of the anchors to secure themselves from sliding down the face.

這時雪巴的架設工作正遇到比較困難地形,溫度也開始下降,而那三個人準備橫越雪巴架設的固定繩時,雪巴跟他們說不要碰到固定繩(那三個人跨過固定繩,沒碰到) 在這時候,先鋒的那個雪巴下降下來和三人其中一人發生口角。


Simone began to shout, many of the words in Nepali language, and many of the words were inflammatory. At this point the fixing team made the correct decision to drop their loads of rope and hardware, attaching them to the installed line, and descend without any further interaction or confrontation with the 3 climbers. The fixing team descended to camp 2 and went to their respective camps as a number of expedition teams work together to fix the route on Mt. Everest. As the fixing team descended to camp 2, Simone radioed down requesting to know what the Sherpa were talking about. At one point Simone stated over open radio frequency (fixing frequency-tuned in by all the fixing teams and anyone listening on the mountain) that if the Sherpa had a problem he could come down to Camp 2 soon and “f—ing fight”.

Simone (三人其中之一,義大利籍)在這個時候開始用尼泊爾話對雪巴吼髒話。雪巴人決定不架設固定繩了,全部撤回 camp 2。Simone 後來用無線電問 camp 2 的人雪巴人回去講了些什麼。無線電頻路是公開的,大家都聽得到,而 Simone 講的話雜有 F-字眼,還有 fight(打架).


As Simone returned back to Camp 2 he again spoke over the fixing frequency a demand to speak with the fixing team comprised of 16 Sherpa (of 8 different teams) back at camp 2. He explained that he would meet them at one of the expedition camps. When he arrived in Camp 2 he went to his tent. At this point some western guides went to Simone’s camp to explain that he should apologize for the situation his team created during a very dangerous workday. As the western guides spoke to Simone, Sherpas from many different teams congregated as a result of his radio call from the Lhotse face and wanted to speak with Simone and get an apology and to explain to him how difficult their job had been that day. The Sherpas who were together felt that Simone’s words and interactions were both hurtful to the individuals, as well as grave and serious insults to the entire Sherpa community. As the Sherpas approached Simone’s camp tensions were high and they wanted to have a discussion with an already angered Simone. Then Simone came out to talk and both sides approached each other in loud discussion at which point a careless western climber who had not been involved up on the Lhotse face arrived and entangled physically with a Sherpa. This was the ignition for what ensued next. It is safe to say that the Sherpa thought this western climber was part of Simone’s team and had initiated a dangerous confrontation. At this point the Sherpa felt as if they needed to defend themselves as they had just seen one of their colleagues attacked. The tense situation ignited and a brawl ensued.

以上這一段是事件發生的現場描述,請各位自己看了。

The brawl was stopped by a group of western climbers and Sherpa working together. Simone’s team was protected by both a Sherpa group and a few western climbers and guides. As the group separated, Simone requested to apologize for his actions. After things calmed down, Simone’s team descended to base camp. The following day, April 28th, was peaceful . . .”
大濟 目前離線   回覆時引用此篇文章
舊 2013-05-02, 08:28   #4
大濟
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在 UKClimbing 網站上, Jonathan Griffith 駁斥上篇的一些說法:

http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=68025
" . . . I realise that when you see the reaction from the Sherpas that it is natural to think that we did something terrible that we are not saying, but honestly this was not the case. The only reason given from the lead Sherpa was that we knocked ice down but I honestly cannot imagine this happened, the fact that no Sherpa has come forward with any injuries does back us up some what. I accept that our presence on the mountain may have stressed the Sherpas out but statements that we were told not to climb that day are total fabrications. We were asked by a IMG guide to not clip in to the ropes and naturally we did not do so . . ."

在前篇 po 出的網站上 http://www.alanarnette.com/blog/2013...pas-viewpoint/ 有不少留言,如果有興趣了解不同人如何對這件事情有不同的看法,可以看看。

我比較有興趣的是雪巴人的留言,特摘錄幾則如下:

Phinjo : “Thank you Alen for sharing the Sherpa side of the story as they don’t have the access to western media. The Sherpa community appreciates your unbiased viewpoint of the unfortunate event on Mt. Everest.”

Pasang : “First Thank you Alan for your observations and report! I personally wishing that some Sherpa should write true observation report, and I know there are few Sherpas who wants to write as like you. Any way you did it. Hope now everything will be good, there in mountain’s holy place and media’s, hello place. Every once love right report with observation.”

Yangzin: “Namaste Allen,Thank you for clear news what had happened during the season and also about mutual goal. Really we have to preserve our relation since 1953ad. We have to follow and respect our relation what Sir Edmund Hillary and Tenjing Norge taught us. Thank you Allen for sharing point of view of both side.”

Nawang:"It’s good to hear, other side story, I believe Sherpas would never initiate such act as mentioned in western media."

Ajay:“Dear Alan, Thank you so much for sharing this article. being a Nepali, i don’t want these conflicts to occur in Nepal with our guests. and the news published on http://www.planetmountain.com ( one of my friend in India who was closely reading updates of the climbers shared the news on her facebook) made me sad and worried about the 3 climbers. but at the same time, the news didn’t have the other side of the story so i was waiting for some news on Sherpas and how it got so intense that they had to fight for their existence or ego. now i’m clear about that had happened. Thank you once again.”

最後,所有西方主要媒體都忙著採訪三位西方當事人,這是大事,不少歐洲報紙到現在還把這件事當頭條,連美國都忙著湊熱鬧(三位當事人沒有一個美國人),訪問不到當事人,就訪問了 Mount3092 在前兩篇 po 的訊息的那位作者。

那位作者是在現場,可是他在訪問時說的話不太像對事情的起末有很多的了解,倒是說了很多他對雪巴人主觀的看法,不禁令人懷疑他在現場 “那裡”?“何時” 進入現場?更奇怪的,除了他,其它很多人也在現場,可是不但沒有什麼人願意公開講到底發生了什麼事,連敢講的人他(她)們的說法都支吾其詞,故意講不清楚。

當然,沒有一個西方媒體對採訪雪巴當事人有興趣,這是常態,毫不足奇。
大濟 目前離線   回覆時引用此篇文章
舊 2013-05-02, 13:46   #5
mount3092
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這可能會成為羅生門吧?我猜!

因為如同大濟所說,所有的報導都是來自西方,然而卻聽不到Nepalis一方的說法。即使聽見Nepalis說法,程度上為了保護整體的"高海拔商業遠征",也不一定可以說出真正的詳情。Nepal在2012年05月有10多位的Sherpa被IFMGA認可成為Mountain Guide ( without skiing)之後,這種商業上的糾葛應該會日益嚴重。

http://thehimalayantimes.com/fullNew...&NewsID=374720
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舊 2013-05-03, 01:40   #6
大濟
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看了諸多報導後,拼拼湊湊,可以看的出事情並沒有那麼複雜。

先不談西方登山界與雪巴之間的歷史文化情節,也不談遠征商業化帶給登山界與雪巴的種種衝突和利益糾葛,這件事情的導火線看起來應該有兩個:

1)是三人跨越雪巴 “正在架設” 的固定繩。很像我們在爬岩時,有人跨越正在爬繩隊的先鋒和確保者之間,如果你是先鋒或確保者,你會不會不高興?跨越冰岩更危險,可能踢下冰屑,甚至冰塊,加上那種高度和地形,誰能忍受?Ueli Steck,Simone Moro 和 Jonathan Griffith 一直在媒體反覆強調他們跨越但沒碰固定繩,也沒踢下冰屑,我覺得有點避重就輕。

2)Simone Moro 接下來在無線電裡講的髒話和挑釁。這點三人都不提,但也都沒否認,可能是事實。如果跨越固定繩是導火線,那這挑釁行為就是火上加油,難怪引起80幾個雪巴的眾怒。如果這個事實西方媒體也都不提,那西方媒體水準和臺灣媒體水準,不過就是50步與百步的差別。

西方登山界對這件事情也怪罪遠征商業化。遠征商業化有它的問題,對登山精神、安全、和環境帶來很多負面影響,可是不能否認以下兩點:1)遠征商業化根本上也是 “純粹登山”(Alpinism)的產物,而且兩者互為表裡、相互依賴,不能只怪罪商業化而不提兩者的隱晦關係;2)真正的 “純粹登山” 已近絕種了,為了成名,為了經費,太多知名登山家利用媒體、贊助廠商等擴大自己影響力,這已是另類的商業化,為了創造記錄,維持知名度,Alpinism 裡面也隱藏諸多問題,登山家也是人,是人就免不了你爭我奪、利益糾葛。

Ueli Steck,Simone Moro,Jonathan Griffith 三位(尤其 Ueli Steck 和 Simone Moro)都有顯赫的登山記錄,可是顯赫記錄不見得代表他們在處理人的問題上也是專家。也許,顯赫記錄反而使他們在自己領域裡忽略了對別人最起碼的體諒和尊重(以及必要時的隱忍),我想這是事情所以發展到最後那個地步的主因。

遠征登山造就了許多英雄,但遠征登山史以及後來延伸出的遠征商業化裡有太多雪巴扮演了極關鍵,忍辱負重,但無名、無聲、甚至被犧牲的角色,如果這次事件顯露出的是雪巴的 “劃聲”,so be it!

此文章於 2013-05-03 05:32 被 大濟 編輯.
大濟 目前離線   回覆時引用此篇文章
舊 2013-05-03, 20:49   #7
mount3092
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Ueli and Elizabeth Hawley 的對談報導。

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor...n=facebookpost


Simone Moro on National Geographic
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...rview-sherpas/

此文章於 2013-05-04 14:07 被 mount3092 編輯. 原因: 修正Simone訪談的錯誤聯結, thanks for大濟的提醒
mount3092 目前離線   回覆時引用此篇文章
舊 2013-05-04, 08:21   #8
大濟
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“國家地理雜誌” 訪談 Simone Moro 中,Simone Moro 嚴詞否認曾用無線電講髒話挑釁。

前面說 Simone Moro 用無線電講髒話和挑釁的人是 Garrett Madison,知名嚮導,WIKI 有他的介紹:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garrett_Madison

幾天下來,因為在場的人陸續開始對外通訊,事情來龍去脈登山界也慢慢清楚了,儘管三位當事人在媒體不停的說自己的看法,開始有一些算是遠征體系裡有份量的人也開始公開表達看法,他們的立場應該是了解事情的真相後才會發言的。譬如:

Phil Powers,American Alpine Club (AAC)執行總裁:
http://inclined.americanalpineclub.o...-then-and-now/

Phil 看法和以下摘錄自 "冒險雜誌“(Adventure Journal)由 Adrian Ballinger 執筆的文章差不多,Adrian Ballinger 是知名嚮導(WIKI 有 Adrian Ballinger 的介紹)

http://www.adventure-journal.com/201...-fight-fiasco/

. . . To me, the bottom line is that multiple mistakes were made by both sides. On Everest, the professional climbers (even when attempting new routes) also benefit from fixed ropes, trails broken, and rescue caches placed, primarily by the Sherpa. The professional climbers involved could have and should have chosen somewhere else to acclimatize on this day, instead of solo climbing above the rope fixing team. Everyone knew about the rope fixing effort, and other teams that would have liked to be climbing where the incident occurred respected the rope fixing effort and stayed off the Lhotse Face. Even if no rock or ice actually was knocked off by the professional climbers, and even if no rope-fixing Sherpa was injured, there was still a perception of disrespect for the effort. As part of past rope-fixing efforts on Everest, I can attest to the importance of not having other climbers pushing the team from below, or putting the team at risk from above . . .”(底線是我加的重點)

回到 “國家地理雜誌” 訪談 Simone Moro 的那篇文章,比較有興趣還是來自雪巴讀者的留言,有兩個:

第一個留言:

Tsering Jangbu: “Hello everyone, I am a sherpa from the place of mount everest too, but i currently live in Kathmandu (Capital). I did have a glimpse of BBC news broadcasting the Mount Everest situation on television, but was busy on computers. Reading this article, i couldn't believe what had happened to the team up there in the mountains. As far as i believe Sherpas are suppose to be the most welcoming and friendly people, looks like we have really disappointed everyone, if what Simone Moro has told is true. On behalf of all those Sherpas, I would like to apologize for the life threatening situation the team had to face. I wish nothing, but never for such thing to happen to anybody's life. Not all sherpas see this article, so i've said what any other sherpas would.”

但他得到的回應之一是:“You sherpas need to clean house!”

另一個雪巴留言:

Ang Sherpa:“ Signor Moro (Dotore!) Bonjorno! I am very sorry this unfortunate incident has happened, all this was unnecessary. There is a big big cultural differences, one has to be tolerent and sensitive to local culture. Brought Couburn touched on the subject, difficult to expect Sherpas of today to behave as their ansestors, some are spoilt, but majority are friendly and humble people. Definately some bad habits has been introduced over the years due to massive influx of tourism. Tourism has become a double edged sword for us Sherpas, brings money and bad influence since all tourists are not same. What really surprised me is why Mr.Moro has not been tactful enough to navigate in this culture for the amount of exposure he has gained over the years. Sherpas are very proud but humble in nature, they resent show offs, arrogance and display of wealth and power. I live and work in Europe, struggle to convince my counterpart that being humble and polite does not mean lack of self confidence in our culture. May I suggest Mr. Moro , next time leave your helicopter back home and come just like any other simple climber to enjoy the mountain but not for fame and glory. When you are in Roma,act as Romans.Needless to tell, Italian soccer players knows all the tricks to win the game. Ah! the main point, there were many many nationalities climbing same time as you but why did this unfortunate incident happened with you? did you question yourself?Whoever is proven guilty should be disciplined , our mountains are getting poluted.Ciao!”

我看了很多的讀者留言,是有不少的人寫下中肯意見也希望能看到比較有雪巴立場的報導,但是很遺憾,不少人,尤其是美國的讀者,保持的態度是這樣的(摘錄自留言):

“If the events unfolded as stated above (指的是 Moro 的版本) it sounds like the sherpas needed a few rounds from a gun. What idiots! Guess what you dumbshits.... you don't own the mountain, you just work there!”

此文章於 2013-05-07 23:38 被 大濟 編輯. 原因: 寫清楚一點
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舊 2013-05-04, 18:25   #9
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我覺得好像很簡單!跨越正在架的固定路線,是錯在先,應該很謙卑的道歉,另一方面,也如一位雪巴在Climbing 網站的留言,無論如何,今天沒有傷亡,雪巴人不該有這樣的待客之道! 
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A-YUNG 目前離線   回覆時引用此篇文章
舊 2013-05-06, 09:57   #10
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以下是來自英國三大報最新的報導,對這事件著墨不多,但提供很多英國人對雪巴人以及對這件事件較 “深層” 的看法,值得一讀:

"The Times" (“泰晤士報”)
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/w...cle3756923.ece

"The Telegraph" (“每日電訊”)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...n-Everest.html

"The Guardian" (“衛報”)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...-everest-brawl
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舊 2013-05-07, 05:06   #11
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這是迄今我看到的唯一由尼泊爾當地新聞刊出,由尼泊爾人執筆的看法:

Pranaya SJB Rana:"of Sherpas and white men"
http://www.ekantipur.com/reporter/3346.html

文中對以下 “國家地理雜誌” 5月1日由 Broughton Coburn 執筆的文章頗多批判:

Broughton Coburn:“Mount Everest Fight Raises Questions About Sherpas”
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...ource=sailthru
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我想,動手打人的那幾位心裡怎麼想? 不應該是一堆人在哪邊研究猜測過去幾十年是不是雪巴人對西方人早就恨得牙痕痕的,或只是單純的那事件讓雪巴人覺得嚴重的不尊重他人的生命安全,才引發那嚴重的肢體衝突?

我可能隔天就看到climbing網站的訊息,但不確定是該留言被他自己刪除,或我記錯了,是他給的連結中的,在更下面的是sherpas-viewpoint,有一段大概五行左右,不是雪巴人就是尼泊爾人,總之,留言是善意的公道話。
http://www.climbing.com/news/ugly-incident-on-everest/


http://www.alanarnette.com/blog/2013...pas-viewpoint/
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A-YUNG 目前離線   回覆時引用此篇文章
舊 2013-05-08, 03:34   #13
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來自 Explorers Web 的最新報導,執筆者應該不在現場,但其文中對雪巴以及遠征商業化的攻擊是很直接、很嚴厲的:

http://explorersweb.com/everest_k2/news.php?id=21469

特別摘錄一段如下:

“ . . . Approaching base camp two days later I saw two sherpas near the tents demonstrating victory by urinating openly five meters before a group of foreigners. What can be said about it? One word - pigs.”

以下則是 Peter Athans,知名登山家以及尼泊爾義工,昨天(五月六日)接受 “國家地理雜誌” 採訪時,所持對這件事以及對雪巴的看法,比較溫和:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...News+-+Main%29

此文章於 2013-05-08 06:51 被 大濟 編輯.
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舊 2013-05-08, 23:27   #14
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三位當事人前天聯合發表的 “最後新聞聲明”。和以前的聲明一樣,否認 Simone 在無線電中說髒話和挑釁(摘錄如下),但也和以前聲明一樣,特別描述、強調被打的細節:
http://www.alpineexposures.com/blogs...-final-release

" . . . Allegations that Simone Moro shouted on the radio that he would fight the Sherpas at Camp 2 surprised both Ueli Steck and Jonathan Griffith when they heard about it. When this allegation came out both Ueli and Jonathan had split from Simone for a day on their travels back to Kahtmandu. It took the two climbers a while to corroborate with people at Camp 2, who had been on the radios, to make sure that this was not true. Indeed those who were listening to the climbing frequency on the day deny that Simone said anything of the sort (as does he). Furthermore the main report from GARRETT MADISON is full or factual errors that can be disproved from eyewitnesses. The fact that he was in BASE CAMP and not at CAMP 2 meant that he would not be able to receive the radio signal being sent from high up on the Lhotse Face. It is important that people do not represent 2nd or 3rd hand information as their own accounts of what happened on the day. This is a very sensitive subject and rumours have no place in the reporting of it . . ."

Himalayan Ascent 是一個由雪巴成立的嚮導公司,前天在其部落格上發表事情發生當時的細節,重點摘錄如下:
http://himalayanascent.com/live-blog.html

" . . . We generally live by the climbers’ code of “what goes on the mountain, stays on the mountain” but since spending the last few days catching up on the sensationalised media coverage of the Camp 2 dispute, we feel that Himalayan Ascent should express a few words concerning the event from our perspective at Camp 2 and from discussions with the involved Sherpa climbers that day.

We already know that on April 27th, a team of Sherpas fixing the lines to Camp 3 had a heated exchange with 3 foreign climbers on the Lhotse face. The 3 climbers were not expected on the route that day by commercial expeditions and particularly were not expected by the fixing team. The team had already experienced one frustrating and failed day of route fixing and they were keen to get the job done. We watched the groups of climbers come together on the face, and after some time, the other 3 climbers separated and continued higher. We then heard the fixing team report into the radio their utter dissatisfaction regarding the exchange; the 3 climbers had not heeded to their requests to avoid their lines and they stated that the 3 climbers had verbally and physically abused them. Simone has since admitted that he did not speak respectfully to the Sherpas that day and that he did use extremely offensive words in Nepali. Understanding the seriousness of the matter, a lead western guide then attempted to radio Simone several times to request him to apologise to the fixing team, eventually Simone answered and we heard him reply along the lines of “I’ll talk to the f---ing Sherpas when I get down”. The Sherpas were shocked. Simone is a well-known respected climber in Nepal, and they were disappointed and angry at his arrogance and lack of respect of the job they were performing. The fixing team anchored their gear and dropped down to Camp 2.

At Camp 2 the fixing team discussed the event with western expedition leaders and with other Sherpas who had listened into the radio. When the 3 climbers arrived into Camp 2, the fixing team were ready to meet them. Everyone else at Camp 2 were also anticipating the “meeting”. The fixing team wanted an apology from the group for their hurtful words. Some western guides acted as a mediator between where the Sherpas were and the group’s camp. Simone was apparently reluctant to offer an immediate apology and eventually the fixing team became impatient, so they walked into the group’s camp to talk to Simone directly. To the many western bystanders watching, this may have seemed like the fixing team were going into the camp to fight. The fixing team threw rocks at the tent to get the group to come out. Some western guides ran to “protect” the group. One western guide tackled a Sherpa carrying a rock perhaps thinking he was going to throw it to hurt someone. Unfortunately, this first assault on the fixing team triggered them to respond aggressively. It was the regular start of what someone else has called a bar brawl at Camp 2 . . . "
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Supertopo 對這件事的討論非常熱烈,到今天為止, 600 多個留言!

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/2126584/FISTICUFFS-ON-EVEREST-The-Daily-Fail-at-it-again

其中一位筆名 Jan 的留言者,原名應為 Janice Sacherer,是一位人類學家也是登山者,對尼泊爾的種族、政經情形非常了解,她的專業知識、客觀溫和筆觸、以及大膽直接看法,等於主導 Supertopo 整個的討論,她寫的東西對我而言是個教育,大且廣的視野用來分析細微的事件前後始末讓人驚艷,也讓人深思!

以下摘錄她30幾個留言中一些片段:

"I am defending the Sherpas because I know their culture and because there's no one else to defend them. I am not justifying violence. The Sherpa culture and religion is very pacifist so what I'm telling you is that if they resorted to violence there's a lot else going on that we don't know about, maybe involving the three climbers who set it off, maybe not. Since the three western climbers involved are all experienced in the Himalayas, and Moro in particular has a good reputation for rescues, it is especially puzzling that the three of them would breach climbing protocol like they did. For 60 years, the rule on the mountain has been that no one interferes with the Sherpa teams who have the job of fixing the ropes, quite a few of whom have died doing that in the Khumbu icefall. Normal civilization involves following the rules and customs of the local people. If climbers don't want to play by those rules, they should go to a mountain without crowds of tourists and Sherpas. They have options and the Sherpas don't . . ."

"Every Sherpa has stories of extra money and gear they were promised to help a client down after that client refused their advice, went for the top and got in trouble. Every Sherpa has stories of the client disappearing or forgetting the conversation when they were back in base camp. Not all Sherpas are good or western clients foolish and bad. If you study the history of Himalayan moutaineering starting back in the 1920's however, it is the Sherpas who have suffered the overwhelming amount of exploitation, not the westerners."

"As for money motivations, western people have many means of making money. The Sherpas live in a country where the per capita income is $300 a year and unemployment is above 50%. Their options are to climb or go to work in construction in the Gulf States, hardly a climate they are used to. Can you really blame them for earning a living at what they do best?"

" . . . If we can step back and look at this more from a social science point of view instead of a personal morality play, then as Jim Brennan pointed out, mob action is the hallmark of poor and disenfranchised people. Compared to the westerners with their hot showers and internet connections and high tech music and nightly videos in base camp, do you really think the Sherpas have an equal say in things? Can they really compete by western rules? Do they have the same access to the internet, book and movie contracts, good English language skills for explaining their position, money to hire lawyers etc? Clearly the answer is no. The fact that we have a dozen western accounts of the episode and only one Sherpa with the resources to reply, is a good indication of the imbalance. What the Sherpas have is what they used - numbers and dominance on the mountain. They certainly could have killed the climbers if they had wanted, but they didn't. They wanted to make a point and they did. Most people are backing the Sherpas. From a purely political point of view (which is usually quite separate from an idealistic moral point of view) they succeeded . . ."

“. . . What the Sherpa response to the elite three did, was ensure that nobody is going to climb next to, or over Sherpa rope fixing any time soon. I believe that making an example of the three elites and stopping this practice in its tracks was their original intention which unfortunately was marred by violence. It has subsequently been stated that everyone climbing the mountain will have to sign a contract in the future promising not to climb where the Sherpas are fixing rope. If they do, they can be pulled off the mountain and might even find themselves in a Nepalese jail for a night or two . . . I believe the Sherpas accomplished what they set out to do which was re-establish themselves as the masters of the mountain . . ."

" . . . I don't believe they intended to kill Moro, Steck, and Griffith on their sacred mountain. I do believe they intended to let them know that all of the Sherpa climbers, not just a few, found their disrespect intolerable. They wanted Moro on his knees to apologize for insulting them and their mothers as such curses are taken much more seriously in their culture than ours. I am sure they also intended to scare the wits out of the three and chase them off the mountain which they did . . . In the end, the way I see it, the three alpinists involved have brought yet more regulation to the mountain and only strengthened the Sherpa's position . . ."

"Whatever system is worked out for the future, it will depend on the Sherpas and we assume the western guide companies, coming up with the solutions since the Nepalese government has been non functional for many years now with the promise of more of the same (four years for a Constituent Assembly to draft a new non monarchial constitution at which they totally failed, new elections to be held for another such assembly and no guarantee of better results). The judicial system seems to have the most integrity of Nepalese national institutions, so perhaps changing the law or at least the regulations is the route to go . . ."

此文章於 2013-05-14 10:21 被 大濟 編輯.
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舊 2013-05-30, 11:35   #16
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傳奇登山家 梅思納 (Reinhold Messner)今天(星期三)公開說,上次與雪巴在珠峯發生衝突的那幾位歐洲登山家是 “寄生蟲”:

﹣﹣ “Climbers who cross ladders set by Sherpas at the Khumbu Icefall, then go up without ropes and claim to be special are parasites," Messner told a crowd at the British embassy in Kathmandu, in an apparent reference to Steck and Moro . . .

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/n...rest-brawl-row

底下是 “紐約客雜誌” (New Yorker)有關這件事情的文章連結。 “紐約客雜誌” 原本要付費看全文,不過如果您點擊文章(片斷)最下的文章圖片,圖片會放大,再點擊文章本身,即可閱讀全文:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...act_paumgarten

此文章於 2013-06-13 08:25 被 大濟 編輯. 原因: 加 New Yorker 資料
大濟 目前離線   回覆時引用此篇文章
舊 2013-06-05, 23:41   #17
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想再去自在地、不受太多限制地爬世界屋脊的山友,真的不應該得罪地主啊,譴責一下冒犯地主的這幾個人是應該的,要不然人家把許可費用加個幾倍,窮登山客就只能期望有人贊助了。世上十四座八千米以上巨峰就有七座在尼泊爾境內和邊境,之前台灣遠征隊只有一個月簽證時間,要爬八千米以上的,真的就算事前在西藏的高度適應已到七千多,行程安排緊湊到尼泊爾之後,要馬上爬升到七千以上的營地,至少也要十天半個月,就這一點來看,難怪我們要比其他國家的隊伍更難完成!
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CHEN,CHIH-YUNG

此文章於 2013-06-08 01:26 被 A-YUNG 編輯. 原因: 錯別字
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舊 2013-07-13, 08:48   #18
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事隔三個月,真相以及後續發展也慢慢圖現,以下兩篇文章都是知名雜誌所登,一是 Outside,另一為 Alpinsit

Outside 報導偏重雪巴以及西方世界在珠峯攀登背景下的互動生態,其中對雪巴的經濟、保險層面有很深入的描述,是一篇資料豐富的寫實文章,全文網址(敬附 pdf 檔);

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor...medium=xmlfeed

Alpinsit 的文章則有關事件本身前後始末,彙集幾乎所有網站已公佈的重要片斷,給予至今為止最詳盡、也比較持中的整理,全文網址:

http://www.alpinist.com/doc/web13x/w...13-full-report
上傳的附件
檔案類別: pdf A Western History of Sherpas on Everest.pdf (100.7 KB, 443 次檢視)

此文章於 2013-08-14 05:42 被 大濟 編輯.
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舊 2013-08-14, 05:43   #19
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http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor...ew.html?page=1

以上 Outside Magazine 8/13 最新的報導,也是四月以來,在西方主流媒體出現的第一篇由在場雪巴親身對對事件的描述(訪問稿)。這篇報導在一些關鍵時刻雙方的行為描述和以前報導有很大的不同。

八月初,尼泊爾政府開始加強珠峯攀登安全,請見以下諸報導,內容大同小異:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...rpa-brawl.html

http://www.scienceworldreport.com/ar...erpa-brawl.htm

http://www.weather.com/sports-rec/ne...erest-20130806
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舊 2013-11-09, 20:42   #20
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引用:
作者: 大濟 檢視文章
傳奇登山家 梅思納 (Reinhold Messner)今天(星期三)公開說,上次與雪巴在珠峯發生衝突的那幾位歐洲登山家是 “寄生蟲”:

﹣﹣ “Climbers who cross ladders set by Sherpas at the Khumbu Icefall, then go up without ropes and claim to be special are parasites," Messner told a crowd at the British embassy in Kathmandu, in an apparent reference to Steck and Moro . . .

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/n...rest-brawl-row
昨天剛好有機會和秋良聊到這個事件,個人對於 Ueli Steck 沒有特別喜好,因為他做的事離我太遙遠,我無法拿他當 role model ,只是我觀察他所做的事,我覺得要不是真的喜歡攀登,不太可能去做這些嘗試。該個雪巴事件我覺得他們只是壓斷駱駝的最後一根稻草。

我相信 Ueli Steck 是很喜歡攀登的。

最近看到的對 Messner 的訪談:

第四個問題:

Right there, in Nepal, Swiss top climber Ueli Steck has caused a sensation by climbing solo through the Annapurna South Face. What is your view on this performance?

Ueli Steck has not been very lucky this year on Everest. The attack at Camp 2 has actually not been directed at him. The Sherpas wanted to hit others, real parasites. Steck and Simone Moro are no parasitic climbers, even if they used the fixed route via the Khumbu Icefall, without having talked to the Sherpas or having paid them. Last year Ueli Steck climbed Everest via the normal route which was not “Steck-like”. But what he did now on Annapurna, was again typically Ueli Steck: Climbing quickly, climbing at night to avoid rockfall, via a very difficult wall. He had tried the South Face twice before but failed, once even quite dramatically, because he was hit by a stone. I really have great respect for this climb. The way he did it is the only one that allows you to climb such a difficult and dangerous wall in Alpine style.
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